Gut Health, Histamine Intolerance and What to do About It: 88
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Dr. Meg Mill discusses the need to consider histamine issues when addressing gut health. She explains the role of histamine in the body and how it can affect various body systems. Register for FREE with this link for the Histamine Summit to hear more in depth discussions of this topic.
Check out my previous interview with Dr. Meg on migraines and headaches.
Takeaways
- Functional medicine offers personalized approaches to address health issues that conventional medicine may not be able to resolve.
- Histamine issues can affect gut health and lead to various symptoms such as digestive issues, anxiety, and hormone imbalances.
- Histamine intolerance can be caused by genetic factors, imbalances in the gut microbiome, and nutritional deficiencies.
- A low histamine diet can be used as an investigative tool to identify trigger foods, but long-term solutions should focus on addressing the underlying causes of histamine intolerance.
- Histamine intolerance can be associated with symptoms such as nasal congestion, headaches, fatigue, anxiety, and joint pain.
- The Reversing Mast Cell Activation Syndrome and Histamine Intolerance Summit provides valuable information from experts in the field to help individuals understand and manage histamine-related issues.
Visit Dr. Meg Mill online at MegMill.com.
Free Gift: The Essential Guide to Histamine Intolerance
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Episode Transcript
Cheryl McColgan (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Heal Nourish Grow podcast. Today I am joined by Dr. Meg Mill and she has been a guest on the show before so I forgot to look up the episode but that will be in the show notes so if you're listening to this it was another great episode with her before be sure you go check it out. But before we get started we got a great new topic today which I'm super excited about and also a cool summit that Dr. Mill is running coming up so more on that later. But first Dr. Meg if you could just share with everybody.
your background, your PharmD, you now do a functional medicine practice. So I'd love for you to just share how you got into all that for people that didn't listen to the interview yet. And then we'll start chatting about our new topic for the day.
Meg Mill (00:40)
Yes, yes. Well, so I, like you said, I graduated with a doctor of pharmacy and then I actually went on to do a residency and was practicing as a clinical pharmacist. And I kind of have two reasons that I switched to functional medicine. And one was that I knew all the protocols. I knew what to do. We had what we should do and people just weren't getting better. I'm like, okay, we're putting them on more medication, but we're not seeing them improve. It's just like, okay, we're sustaining this place. And then at the same time, I was having a lot of my own
health issues. So I was having, you know, a lot of digestive issues. I was having anxiety. I actually started getting panic attacks. And that was when I was at the point where I have to change. So I remember sitting, like my kids are playing on the beach and I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, I'm here, but I'm in so much, like my stomach's upset. I can't eat anything. I, you know, I'm having all this anxiety. I need to make a change in my life. And that's kind of when my journey shifted and I started to really look into more holistic ways of healing.
And that led me to find functional medicine for myself and finally get answers. I've been to like five different gastroenterologists I you know was we moved a lot at the time so I'd be like I'm gonna get an answer now when we moved to a new place and it just it was just not everyone said you're fine you look like the picture of health of Listeners if you've been told that and you feel terrible go with your instincts because that is not true But when I finally found answers, I was like I need to share this with others. I opened my virtual practice
and functional medicine and really it's been been able to heal help not heal really help other people heal so many different things and see these health transformations it's been amazing.
Cheryl McColgan (02:23)
Yeah, and I'm sure a lot has happened over the last year since we last spoke. It might even have been longer than that at this point. But so I think you mentioned, you had some gut health issues before. Before we move on to the new topic, that's such a kind of a, it's really popular to chat about that right now. So I'm just curious, since we last spoke, is there…
maybe anything additional that you've learned in the last year or so or new practices that you've put into place to really support your gut health. Because I do think that that is such a good foundation for a lot of the things. And probably we're going to talk about that more in an upcoming topic, but I'd love to just hear if you have anything sort of new to share or new thoughts on that since we last spoke.
Meg Mill (03:07)
Yeah, so I think a lot of it comes, you know, what we're going to talk about some of this, because one of the things that I am finding is that more and more people have histamine issues in our world. And when you're, when you have histamine issues, you actually have to look at gut health a little bit differently. So a lot of people are hearing from influencers and practitioners for good reason, but fermented foods, bone broth, probiotics. But if you have histamine,
issues, those actually can make you feel worse. So some of the things that we're doing actually to help our gut can be making us feel worse or having flares and other things, you know, maybe you're getting more anxiety, maybe your hormones are out of balance, maybe we're having some of these other things happen because of some of the things we're being told to do.
were our gut health. And so it's tricky. I think a lot of times people just are out there saying things, you know, we're in that world of information, which is wonderful. But then we hear, okay, I have to do this. I have to do this. You know, now the new thing is colostrum and that's great. Colostrum can be good for a lot of people, but then someone that I was working with, we said, well, you know, colostrum is not what you need right now. And so we took her off of it because she had just heard someone say, everybody needs to go to the classroom. And she's like, my gosh, I feel so much better.
because it's not what she needed. So I think really my best advice is to get a stool test. I mean, stool tests give us so much information and we can look at your individual microbiome. We can really replete that bacteria that is low. We can get the invaders that we need. We can improve your digestive function. So it's more about personalizing it to what you need than maybe just following just a general protocol because that's what I see. Everybody's a little bit different in what they're needing.
are a little bit different.
Cheryl McColgan (05:01)
Yeah, and that's such a great point because really things do need to be individualized. And so even if you've learned something new in the past year that worked for you or one of your patients regarding gut health, that doesn't mean it's gonna necessarily work for the next person. So I guess that being said, we should just, you mentioned it, histamine. So let's talk about it. That's kind of your new passion at the moment. And I would love for you to first just maybe start for people, you know, they hear this.
word histamine. And the first thing that probably comes to mind, especially this time of year, if you live in Cincinnati, like I do, is antihistamine because the pollen is insane. But I think people have kind of a sense that it's sort of like a reaction maybe in your body histamine, but could you just kind of give a broad definition of it and then maybe go a little bit more detail into how it relates to your overall?
Meg Mill (05:49)
Yes, yes, absolutely. So, you know.
Histamine we generally think of as allergies like you're saying but it's actually so much more we're finding more and more research on How it's affecting so many different parts of our bodies because we actually have four different types of histamine receptors in our body So it's actually an overall body issue and we can get into that but it's actually what we call a bio Genic amine which is the scientific term but it actually the purpose so when the immune system detects an allergen
or an invader, its histamine is released from our mast cells and our basophils and it's actually part of our immune response. So it increases the permeability of our blood vessels which allows our immune cells to reach the affected area more.
quickly and it's kind of like cortisol where I feel like if there's purpose but it gets a bad rap because there's so many negative symptoms but we do need it for immune defense. It actually regulates our gastric acid secretion to help us break down foods. It can affect our neurotransmitter activity so it can affect serotonin, norepinephrine. It's part of our body's response to repel allergens and also can even cause bronchoconstriction in our lungs so if you breathe something in you're
it prevents it from getting deep into your airways, and it actually creates an inflammatory response. And so in the purpose of an acute situation, this is important because we need to increase vascular permeability to allow the blood to flow to the area that needs help. But the problem is when we start to see this happen long -term, and we're starting to get this long -term inflammation because it's not being turned off.
Cheryl McColgan (07:33)
So similar to the same thing like inflammation gets a bad rap. It's very important process in the body, but if it's a chronic long -term thing rather than acute, so just to remind people acute sort of what happens in the moment, like you get some pollen in your nose and you sneeze, that's an acute reaction because it's just like maybe a one -time thing. Whereas like if it's more of an extended period of time, your body can kind of almost go into overdrive. Is that how you would describe it? When it's more like of a chronic condition that causes the issue.
Meg Mill (08:01)
Yes, so I like to think of it like a bucket. I mean, it's just a good way to give an analogy. So think of your body like a bucket with holes in the bottom. And so as long as we're pouring things in and draining out, so you need to fill the bucket, drain it, fill it, drain it. And as long as that's happening, your body's in balance and you're using histamine for the purposes that we need to, and you don't really feel the effects. But what starts to happen is if you either get holes in the bottom,
the bucket or you get an overflow of things filling your bucket up or both. And so when we're looking at the plugs, like if we're getting plugs in the bottom of that bucket, we're looking at a breakdown in the way we're processing histamine. So we process histamine in two ways out of our body. And the first one is diamine oxidase and the other one is histamine and methyltransferase. So the diamine oxidase is in your gut and then the histamine and methyltransferase is a
a process of methylation. So we need to be able to methylate to break down the histamine. And so what starts to happen is when we start to get different things happening in the gut, we can either have, well, we can either actually first have genetic factors that are variations in the way we produce the DAO enzyme. But then we also can have an imbalance where we start to get what we call dysbiosis. And we start to get this imbalance of this good and this bad bacteria.
and it can create.
different problems. So the DAO lives in the mucosal layer of the gut lining. So if we have issues with that mucosa, we start to get a compromised DAO. And so we can't break down the histamine that we eat from our foods well. And then we can also start to get a leaky gut, which can also cause more inflammation, and it can actually cause more down regulation of the DAO. So we need to have those good DAO enzymes in order to break down the histamine.
We also can get nutritional deficiencies because DAO requires certain nutrients. So like vitamin B6, copper, vitamin C.
You need to be able to make sure you're actually digesting and absorbing those nutrients. And so we need to make sure all of these factors are happening in order to break down histamine in our food. So we have histamine in some foods and we'll get into that. They're often healthy foods, but we need to make sure when we eat those foods that we're breaking it down. If that happens, you're not getting symptoms. If not, you start to get the symptoms.
Cheryl McColgan (10:40)
Okay, and I definitely have some follow up questions on what you just described, but before we do that, I think what you just mentioned is, you're getting some histamine from foods. Are foods the only source? Are there some foods that more commonly cause this issue than others? Or where else might you find histamine? Because I think, again, going back to the pollen analogy, or example, everybody knows about pollen, but I think fewer people know what are histamine causing foods, or are there other things outside of food that can cause this histamine response?
Meg Mill (11:11)
Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, even even things like stress, actually, so stress affects everything so stress.
Cheryl McColgan (11:17)
Nobody has that.
Meg Mill (11:20)
So stress can actually stimulate the mast cells, so it can lead to a release in histamines. So that's one thing. It also can modulate the immune system and lead to an imbalance in the TH1 and TH2 immune response. So that's something that we're not even maybe thinking is bothering us. We have the histamine -rich foods, which we can get more in depth, but I'll just go through some of these other things and then we can talk more about the foods. But there's also environmental, so think of your outlet.
our seasonal allergies, they can cause the release of histamines because our immune system has tagged those as invaders, even though they're not some of that's dangerous to us. So that's an important point here to make is that what can start to happen, and we see this, so one of the things that can cause a big factor for causing histamine intolerance. So right now we're kind of switching gears and we're talking about what fills the bucket up and we're looking at these things. And one of the things that can be a big factor,
factor is mast cell activation syndrome. And so what starts to happen is you get this immune dysregulation. You can get some nervous system dysregulation, immune hypersensitivity, and we start to see the mast cells release histamine from everyday things. So…
you may just start to react to so many more things than you should be. We see this, it depends on the person, but we can see it really vary and your body starts to react to everything. And so some of the things that can start to cause that are toxins, mold, we can have other environmental factors. And then we can even have illnesses like viruses like EBV, we have tick -borne illnesses.
We see we're seeing this more and more in COVID. And so we're starting to see our immune system have to deal with other assaults that are going on, which is causing it basically think of it getting angry. So it's like, okay, I'm dealing with this. I'm doing this to this. And the imbalance gets off and it starts to just overreact. And so once it starts to overreact to things, then it's releasing more histamine and then you're getting more of these histamine symptoms.
Cheryl McColgan (13:39)
And before we move on to the food, there is another thing that you mentioned maybe a minute or two ago that I kind of wanted to bring up for people. You said something about methylation. So for example, now these genetic tests are a little bit more common that people will take and they learn maybe that they're a poor methylator, for example, me. So is that the same sort of pathway that has to do with maybe being more sensitive to histamines? And so can supporting your methylation…
pathways with things like methylated B vitamins or other things, can that actually help you become more resilient in this histamine process or is it like a totally separate process altogether?
Meg Mill (14:18)
It is. Nope, you are correct. So it's a little bit more complicated than that, but that's the first step. So we need histamine and methyl trans -rays is active in the breakdown of histamine within our cells of the body. So it works by methylated histamine and forming it into N -methyl histamine, which then is excreted in the kidneys. And so we do need the methylated folate and the methyl Bs.
order to methylate well if you have that MTHFR. So we're hearing a lot of, okay, I have MTHFR. Now I do think it's interesting because I feel like people are now taking MTHFR as like, I have MTHFR. Like it's something that is like terrible that we have. And really it's just a variant. So what we're looking at is how can we overcome that variant in your body? And so what we're doing is, you know, we're giving you methylated B vitamins, methylfolate.
in order to overcome that. So you want to be careful if you have this to have regular folic acid, but as long as you're taking the methylated folate, we're upregulating that. Now, when it comes to the breakdown of histamine, we have to be careful because N -methyl histamine can be more active. There's different forms of histamine that are more active. And so we want to make sure that the whole pathway is actually your ability to
you're able to excrete it out the whole pathway. So sometimes if you're up regulating that and you're taking, let's say a methylated B complex and you're up regulating methylation, but down further, you have like a monoamine oxidase variation, you may actually be blocking it further down the pathway. And so sometimes we have to look at that full pathway and make sure that things like B2, like riboflavin can help.
open up some of the parts on the lower part of that pathway. So we have to make sure that that whole pathway is open. It's a little bit complicated to get into like eight that people probably don't want to hear like each piece of it, but you have to just really the gist is if you take the B complex that's methylated and you're like, okay, I feel more anxious. I feel like my symptoms are getting worse than maybe you have a block further down in that path.
Cheryl McColgan (16:43)
super interesting. I've never heard that part of it before. All I've heard is, for example, I had this advanced test that I actually did a full podcast on one time. And that's when I learned that I was a poor methylated and I should be taking the methylated, which I haven't actually started on yet. Bad, bad, bad practitioner here. But it was because my, I'm going to forget the thing. You know, it's very related to cardiac health. This number was a little bit elevated and he thought it was because of my
Meg Mill (17:12)
How much is deep? Was it? Yeah.
Cheryl McColgan (17:13)
Yes, thank you. Yes, my homocysteine was a little elevated, so he thought that taking those bees might help. But that's a good, all that's to say that that's why it's kind of important if you know you have something like that to work with a practitioner, because for example, if I go on this, which I should try this, go on the methylated bees, then I should notice are any symptoms getting worse or better related to that. And then if I'm working with a practitioner,
like yourself, you would know that, okay, maybe that MAO pathway is not totally open. So let's maybe like tweak something or do something with that. So I just think that's like a good point for people. Like once you know these things, definitely work with somebody so that the things that you try, you don't end up making things worse. Right.
Meg Mill (17:58)
because it's like you're again we're hearing a lot of information and it's
Like, okay, I need to do this and then we do it and is that right for you right now? And I think that's what you always want to ask. Like, is that right for me? And is that right for me right now? And what I'm doing? Like if you're taking something and you're reacting to it, then you should question like, okay, should I actually be taking this? It doesn't make me feel better. Does it make me feel worse? And maybe get some of that intuitive body feelings to see what how things are actually affecting you.
Cheryl McColgan (18:30)
Yeah, and actually that's another great point that you said about is it right for you right now because I'm noticing that for many years I had really bad seasonal allergies and then somehow over the years they just got a whole lot better and really hadn't bothered me for years until this year which I had been away living in another state for a while and so maybe my body got a little used to a different set of allergens and then coming back here my body's like whoa, wait a minute. But you know, so if your system is…
activated in some way or you're feeling different, adding some of these additional things on right now might not be the right moment to attack that. So I think that's just a great point. And again, another reason to work with a practitioner so you have somebody to bounce these ideas off of, you know, when you're dealing with health issues. But anyway, I would love to go back to you mentioned some of the environmental factors, other things, I think, you know, one really obvious thing is if you have, if you know you react to histamines,
one of the easiest to avoid maybe are certain foods. So I'd love it if you'd share a little bit about what you found to be the most activating foods for people with this issue. And how would somebody know that they're reacting to histamines? Like what kind of symptoms would they be experiencing after eating a histamine food, for example?
Meg Mill (19:45)
Yeah, so it can, that's where it's a little bit tricky here, cause it can vary. So you can have the outlet, like you could find that you have a runny nose, you can have itchy skin, your face could turn red, you could have flushing, but then you could also have things like a rash come out. You could feel more anxious, you know, maybe a day within that day of eating, you could get a headache. So myo grains can be a big trigger. You might have IBS symptoms. You might like one more. And I think that's where we're like, we think of, okay,
just that allergy type reaction, but a lot of these can be overall body reactions that you might not be associating with food. And so that's where actually one of the things that I have people do is print out a blank calendar. When we're using the low histamine diet, I like to use it as an investigation tool, not a long -term strategy. And I think a lot of people can get hung up on this diet as like, okay, I have to follow this. It's a complicated diet. I follow it exactly.
It's really, it's a good starting place to see if these foods are bothering you and if they are, we can see which ones, why, and it can give us a lot of clues and we can pull them out for symptom relief, but we're ultimately looking at why is your bucket filling up? Why are your, you know, why are the grains clogged? And that's what we need to do long -term in order to reverse this. But when we're looking, it's a really great investigation tool. So when we're seeing,
There's different categories. So we can see high histamine foods. So high histamine foods are fermented foods. We have aged cheese, we have cured meats, alcohol is another one. And then we have histamine liberating foods. So these are foods that are gonna like liberate histamine from your body. So we see strawberries, tomato, banana. Then we also have foods that can inhibit DAO. And so those can be actually something like tea, like black tea.
We also, caffeine can block DAO. So we're looking at these different categories. And as you've noticed, some of the foods that I said are healthy foods. And so it can be surprising, even avocados are another one. So things that we're eating maybe on purpose for different reasons that are valuable might be actually bothering you. Another thing you have to be very careful that makes histamine intolerance tricky with the low histamine diet is that,
freshness counts. So we need to make sure that you're, it's not necessarily a great idea to meal prep unless you're gonna flash freeze because once you cook meat in different foods then histamine can actually grow in the food. So sometimes actually avoiding leftovers over 24 hours can be a really good thing if we're exploring this diet. So I think that's something that that's kind of you're not thinking about how long your food has been out and even restaurants because
you never know when they cooked it. So like that's another thing people say, well I actually got food out and I reacted to maybe something that's not typically high histamine but it might have to do with the freshness.
Cheryl McColgan (22:57)
Interesting. Yeah, my husband would be very happy to hear that because he's not a big leftover person. So I don't think he reacts to it. He just never thinks to use them. So anyway, that's just an aside.
Meg Mill (23:02)
Thank you.
Yeah, well, no, I'm like, no, I can't, I'm not gonna eat like, I'm like, will you be eating that because I won't be eating after 20? I mean, I do have histamine issues. I have genetic, like I have some of the genetic variants, you know, I have
But I guess that being said, all the symptoms that I have are under control. So I'm not really having issues, but I also am just careful, you know, careful about the basics. I don't have to really avoid the foods at this point because I have worked on gut health for so long. I've worked on so many of these things, but I still do, maybe I'm just, you know, I still do watch leftovers. Too long. Yes.
Cheryl McColgan (23:46)
So meal preppers out there, sorry about that if you haven't have histamine issues.
Meg Mill (23:52)
If it's in your schedule, then just put it in the freezer till you're ready and then.
Cheryl McColgan (23:56)
Got it. So all that, so I think you probably, you mentioned that you were having this issue yourself, which is often how we all get into these paths of these little health rabbit holes we go down. And you started a summit this year, and I think probably partially in relation to exploring some of these new things, can you share with the audience a little bit about what the summit's gonna be about, what kinds of things you'll be sharing and…
you know, how they can listen in and learn even more great health tips from you and your guests.
Meg Mill (24:29)
Yes, yeah. So it's called reversing mass cell activation syndrome and histamine intolerance summit. And we are going to be talking about both. So we're going to be talking all about histamine, how it affects your body. And then we're even going to get into mass cell activation and how you know if you have it, how it's diagnosed and how this is affecting more and more of the population. I think one of the things that I just kept seeing is I've had the history, but I've been seeing more and more people come to me with histamine issues. And it's like all of these, like we're talking.
about unrelated symptoms that once we look at it through this histamine lens, we put these pieces together and it's sort of like everything starts to clear up. So I have interviewed 50 experts in this field. We have some top names in the functional space that are going to give us great information. It is June 18th through the 24th and it's a free event. So come, listen, learn. There's going to be so much more information than you can.
even absorb because we have a lot of great speakers and a lot of great information.
Cheryl McColgan (25:33)
So just so when people hear this, I can create a special link to it. And so let's say it's gonna be healnourishgrow .com slash histamine summit. And that will be where you can go and register to join for free. And you said you have 50 guests. Are you allowed to kind of like preview or give a little share of some people that you have talking and the kind of topics they'll be covering?
Meg Mill (25:58)
Yeah, so we're going to talk with, so Neil Nathan is big. He wrote the book Toxic and he is big in this space of, because mold can play a role. We didn't even get into that, but sometimes mold can play a role in really how to look into that. We have Carrie Jones, who is the hormone expert. So hormones are a big deal. And that's even why you sometimes will have histamine issues at certain times of the month and not.
other times because we're more likely to have histamine issues when we have higher levels of estrogen. Estrogen can be histamine promoting and DAO enzyme inhibiting. So we look at the hormonal balance. We're going to talk about fasting with Cynthia Thurlow and J. Bin Moore on there talking about even how Lyme can impact this. And there's just so many great experts that really are sharing such different insights. We're coming at it from a lot of different angles.
to give you things about what we can do about it, how we can get this figured out, and then also how you can really manage it in your life. Becky Campbell is another one who is a big in the histamine and mast cell space.
Cheryl McColgan (27:14)
Before we wrap this, I just want to again for people, so they might be hearing this and they're thinking, well, I don't think I have a histamine problem. I don't need to listen to this. But number one, just because you don't have it today doesn't mean you might never have it. I mean, we hope you never have it, but it could happen in the future or doesn't mean that people that you know and love and care for might not have it. So just to kind of wrap it up again.
What are some of the top things that people could be looking for in their experience, in their life, in their health, the way they're feeling that might indicate that this is something for them to maybe go to the summit, hear it, learn a little more about it so they can see if it's something that might apply to them? What would you be looking for?
Meg Mill (27:54)
So you're looking at like nasal congestion, sneezing, asthma, difficulty breathing. Those are kind of the ones you typically think of. But then headaches and migraines, I see it in so many of the people I work with with headaches and migraines have underlying histamine issues. Fatigue, so even if you're having unexplained fatigue, heart palpitations, dizziness, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, PMS, irregular periods, flushing, joint pain, sleep disturbances, high or low blood pressure,
pressure, hives and vertigo. So you're, as you're seeing anxiety, depression, those are other ones. So as you're seeing it's, it's a lot of different issues. And that's where I think I'm trying to bring more awareness that, okay, if you're having some of these symptoms, especially if you're having more than one of those things, you want to look at it from a different lens and see, okay, can histamine be playing a role in what I'm feeling? Because when we look at it through this lens, we can do the right thing.
in the right order to really get a lot of different things to clear up at the same time.
Cheryl McColgan (29:00)
Yeah, and you just listed a list there, but the one that stuck out to me was fatigue. So basically pretty much anybody listening to this right now should go to the summit and learn more about this and see if this is something that could help you because, and you're saying a lot of this, I mean, you named off a whole bunch of things that, you know, like, for example, I could do that. I could look at and be like, okay, maybe this is really what it's been all along. So that's, that's really great. So again, for listeners, be sure to go to heel nourish, heel nourish grow .com slash.
Histamine Summit and you can register for free and then you can learn more about this and hopefully get yourself feeling better. I know after listening to this I'm going to be going in. Not that I wouldn't have before because I'm a geek and I love learning about all this stuff, but some of the symptoms I've had lately, I think I should definitely go listen to this. So Dr. Meg, any final thoughts? Can you first tell everybody where they can follow you, where they can contact you, learn more about your work, all that good stuff and any final thoughts that you want to leave people with?
Meg Mill (29:57)
Yes, so I have my website is Meg Mill .com. Just -E -G -I -L -L .com. And I actually offer free discovery calls. So if you have any questions, if you're curious, like, okay, does this apply to me? Reach out and I'd love to talk with you. I'm over on Instagram at Dr. Meg Mill. I also have a podcast called A Little Bit Healthier and we talk about all sorts of different health issues over there. And yeah, just I would love to see it this summer. I can also share and give you the link.
to I have a free guide on histamine intolerance and that gives more complete food list because a lot of the low histamine diets aren't accurate or confusing and so I took a lot of time creating this guide so I can also link that too and that's a resource that I'd love to share with everyone.
Cheryl McColgan (30:44)
Okay, amazing. Definitely I'll add that to the show notes. So Dr. Meg, always such a pleasure to talk to you and see you on camera and learn about what you're doing. I just love your work. So thanks again for joining us today and I will be listening over at the summit.
Meg Mill (30:58)
Thank you so much for having me.
