Creating a Healthy Relationship with Food: 107
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In this episode, host Cheryl McColgan interviews mental health professional Celeste Rains-Turk. She specializes in helping individuals improve their relationship with food and body image. Celeste shares her personal journey of overcoming disordered eating and how it inspired her to help others.
The conversation delves into the complexities of disordered eating, the impact of body positivity movements, and the importance of mindfulness in achieving a healthy relationship with food. Celeste emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to health and fitness, advocating for self-love while also recognizing the importance of caring for one's body.
The episode concludes with practical strategies for changing food associations and fostering a healthier mindset around eating. Celeste shares insights on diet breaks, the impact of choices on long-term health, and offers resources for improving food relationships, including coaching programs and an upcoming wellness retreat.
Connect with Celeste and learn more about the upcoming retreat at celestial.fit and follow her on Instagram.
Takeaways
- Many individuals struggle with their relationship with food and body image.
- Disordered eating can often go undiagnosed due to its complex nature.
- Mindfulness can significantly improve self-esteem and body image.
- The body positivity movement has both positive and negative implications.
- It's essential to focus on health and longevity rather than just aesthetics.
- Self-love should not lead to self-destructive behaviors.
- A balanced approach to nutrition is key for long-term health. Understanding food relationships is crucial for emotional well-being.
- The cycle of restriction and bingeing can be interrupted by trust in oneself.
- The power of choice allows for healthier eating habits without guilt.
- Diet breaks can provide mental relief and improve long-term results.
Disclaimer: Links may contain affiliate links, which means we may get paid a commission at no additional cost to you if you purchase through this page. Read our full disclosure here.
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Episode Transcript
Cheryl McColgan (00:00.494)
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Heal Nourish Grow podcast. Today I am joined by the lovely and very smiley Celeste Rains-Turk and I am really excited to chat with her today because she is a mental health professional. She specifically deals a lot with helping people with their relationship with food, has so many free resources for that and so many programs. And in addition to that, she is a prolific podcaster and I've basically been pod-stalking her for the last two or three months.
Celeste Rains-Turk (00:07.45)
You
Cheryl McColgan (00:30.294)
I know a lot about Celeste, but now I'm going to share that with you guys, because I just think she is a really amazing source of information and really a light in the world of health and fitness. So Celeste, all that being said, welcome to the show. And could you just share with people a little bit about yourself? How did you become attracted to this mental health work and what lights you up about doing this kind of work?
Celeste Rains-Turk (00:53.403)
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I like your vocabulary usage. It's great. So what I'll start with what lights me up about this work because I think that lends insight into what got me into it. So what lights me up most about the work that I do is seeing people achieve something they didn't think was possible. So a lot of the people that I work with, they come to me almost on a last hope, a last resort.
thinking is there any way I can actually heal my relationship with food and my body without sacrificing my fitness and physique goals? Because so many of them have been told by fitness professionals or mental health professionals that they cannot do both and I want them to know that they can. So it is incredibly rewarding for me to see them actually achieve that goal. That is amazing because they don't expect to do that. Now, as far as what got me into it was I personally
Cheryl McColgan (01:32.974)
been pulled by.
Cheryl McColgan (01:37.998)
you
Cheryl McColgan (01:43.982)
That is amazing because they don't expect to do that.
get to it was my first day of school in 2015 and prior to that I struggled with my relationship with food.
Celeste Rains-Turk (01:52.923)
started competing in 2015. And prior to that, I had struggled with my relationship with food and my body image. A lot of disordered eating pathways for me where I would force myself to work out after anything that I ate. I would restrict heavily if I ate off off plan. I would have like a free meal or cheat meal, but that was really more like a cheat day. And I would literally wake up from
Cheryl McColgan (02:02.426)
or needing pathways for me where I would force myself to work out after anything that I hate. I would restrict heavily if I hate office.
of free meal or cheap meal, but that was really more like a cheap day and I went to the grocery store.
Celeste Rains-Turk (02:22.647)
I would wake up at midnight just to eat until the midnight the next day. Like it was my all out binge fast. And I feel awful the next day to the point where I'd be doing things like drainage massages and then restricting food and trying to drink as much water as I couldn't. My skin would feel like it was bruised. So I had seriously struggled with binge eating and
Cheryl McColgan (02:24.686)
just to eat until the midnight the next day like it was an all out binge fast. And I feel like on a diet where I'd be doing things like a drainage massage with my hands and then just drinking food and trying to drink as much water as I could and my skin would feel like it was bruised. So I had so much period from binge eating and arguing with pulling the other roast up because I engaged in compensatory behaviors.
Celeste Rains-Turk (02:48.121)
You could argue, believe me, a nervosa because I engaged in compensatory behaviors. And when I started the podcast in 2018, Confessions of a Bikini Pro, and I started talking to bikini competitors, I realized, my gosh, my message of build more than just a body is for bodybuilders. Why am I not serving this niche? And I launched my first program, which was a post-show blues program. I still have it. And I remember I got two people signed up and I was like, that's it.
Cheryl McColgan (03:08.8)
And I.
Cheryl McColgan (03:13.806)
that we're out to people's like, that's it.
Celeste Rains-Turk (03:16.091)
I'm gonna do it, it's gonna be successful. Now granted, I had been running a business at that point three years as an online fitness coach, but I was so fascinated by the mindset behind things that I changed my degree from dietetics to psychology. And then in working on building my own psychology up and then having the podcast, I'm like, there's so much more here that I can do that I'm not doing. And in 2018, I graduated with my bachelor's in psychology.
Cheryl McColgan (03:21.422)
I've graduate three years as an online fitness coach, but I'm so excited to try the mindset behind things that I changed my degree from dietetics to psychology and then working on building my own psychology after this. There's so much more here that I do that I'm not doing and it's disgusting that I graduated from a bachelor's in psychology. So I decided let's apply this.
Celeste Rains-Turk (03:45.371)
So I decided let's apply this because I put so much of my research efforts and so much of the work that I did in school to these concepts. And I started serving people in this niche and it really just took off. And I'm really glad that it did because now I've helped competitors globally to achieve a relationship with food that they're happy with without actually giving up their competition goals. Or for those of them who did give up competing,
Cheryl McColgan (03:50.23)
I did.
And I started serving people at this stage and it really just took off and I'm really glad that it did because now I've helped competitors locally to achieve the relationships that they're happy with without actually giving up their competition goals. most important thing about competing is that it was huge real change because they were forced to or felt that they had to because they were fighting at least with letting that go. So, that's it.
Celeste Rains-Turk (04:11.707)
It was because they chose to not because they were forced to or felt that they had to it was because they were finally at peace with letting that go. So that's the that's the kind of stuff that lights me up and that's what got me there really.
Cheryl McColgan (04:24.174)
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your personal background, number one, because I think I quite often when I talk to people on here, I find most of the people that got into a certain kind of work has to do with some personal either struggle or passion that they had. And so that matches really well with what everything that you just said. And then the second thing that people might be thinking about listening to this interview, they're maybe like, well, why are you talking to somebody that just works with competitors, you know, or bikini pros?
And it's because I think the information that you have, like you mentioned your struggle when you were a young woman in high school and going into college, and that is not uncommon. I experienced it. I know others that have experienced it. To whatever degree it is, whether it's a full-blown eating disorder or just body dysmorphia, and I say quote unquote, just body dysmorphia, but that is a very serious struggle as well for a lot of people.
I think the fact that you've primarily worked with competing bikini competitors isn't your scope of knowledge because obviously this really applies to everyone. So I was so happy when you agreed to come on the show because I know it's not exactly specifically competitor related. But I also have a little bit of a personal interest in that. anyway, all that being said, let's just chat about a little bit just so people understand where you're coming from.
Celeste Rains-Turk (05:34.84)
yeah.
Cheryl McColgan (05:52.256)
that I think your personal interest in how you kind of moved through that, is that what really allowed you to think that, these professionals that are in the tradition that think if you have any kind of disordered eating that you shouldn't put, you know, obviously what you're doing for competition, you're doing some restriction, you're doing a lot of exercising, you're doing you're changing your body composition in not just a, I need to lose 10 pounds kind of way, but in a very significant
structured way. And so somebody might say on the surface, I can see why they don't think that's a good idea. But what was it that clicked for you when you move through these things that you thought, wait, I don't think they're quite right. And I know I can help people do the same thing that I did.
Celeste Rains-Turk (06:35.611)
That's a really great question. And I'll even go back to your previous point. I have been honored to actually work with a lot of different types of teams, like even rock climbing teams, weight loss teams. So I serve a lot of people. The language your listeners might see on my website and stuff will be competitor geared, but I work with all sorts of people. So if someone's listening to this and they end up going, wait, I could use that help. Feel free to reach out to me. Just know.
Cheryl McColgan (07:05.422)
know.
Celeste Rains-Turk (07:05.467)
Um, even if it's, it looks like competitor language, I do help others as well. Um, and as far as how I came to that realization, well, when we look at a lot of mental conditions or disorders, we have to consider that it's a disorder because it's having a very negative impact on their daily life. And in considering
Cheryl McColgan (07:08.12)
Yeah.
Celeste Rains-Turk (07:32.665)
food relationship and body image, I got to thinking, well, a lot of people who compete in sports or who pursue a fitness goal, it's actually having a very positive impact on their life. Interestingly, this is why a lot of times eating disorders go undiagnosed unless a family member brings somebody in for it or tells them, hey, you've got a problem or points it out because disordered eating is one of those things that can…
Cheryl McColgan (07:34.382)
Thank
Cheryl McColgan (07:40.088)
This poll is actually something very positive.
Cheryl McColgan (07:45.358)
A of times eating disorders to go undiagnosed unless a family member brings somebody in for it or tells them things about a problem points out because there's a lot of that can impact on someone's life but actually very negative. So goes, well, this is fine. It's helping me eat, but no, it's really not.
Celeste Rains-Turk (07:57.783)
appear to be creating a positive impact on someone's life, but actually be very negative. So it's interesting because the psyche goes, well, this is fine. It's healthy for me, even though it's really not. But what I realized was food is not really to blame for this, nor is the goal of the physique you're going for. If we put all the blame on that, then that would mean there's no other reason that these behaviors are happening.
Cheryl McColgan (08:27.662)
We have to take it a step further and go, is there a way to work through those goals?
Celeste Rains-Turk (08:27.929)
And that's oftentimes not the case. We have to take it a step further and go, well, is there a way to pursue those goals and do so that it doesn't trigger some sort of disordered eating or it doesn't trigger you to feel a certain way about your body? And I think that people were implementing this all in approach, right? You've got to completely give up competing or you've got to completely immerse yourself into having any and all foods that you want. But when you do that,
Cheryl McColgan (08:40.206)
disorder eating or it doesn't trigger you to feel hurt by your body. But take this all in approach, right? got to completely give up. You've got to completely immerse yourself in having any and all food that you want. You don't actually get things like that to eat until what's guiding your decisions.
Celeste Rains-Turk (08:57.731)
You don't actually get the insight that you need into what's guiding your decisions. You remove the possibility for learning and for mindfulness. If we can implement mindfulness, we're also more likely to create a higher self-esteem. So when I was really stepping back and looking at this, I'm like, if someone says that you can't do both, what they're saying is this is all to blame for this.
It's usually the intention behind what we're doing. That's to blame. I can tell you there are competitors who I've worked with and I mean, even other sports, but let's, let's say competitors. They have a very similar approach. Let's say both of them are following macros. One of them's feeling they've got a lot of flexibility. It's been really helpful for them. It's great. One of them feels it's very restrictive. They're still fixated on how much they can fit in their plan or not fit in their plan. Same plan.
Cheryl McColgan (09:38.636)
be able to that.
feeling like, wow, flexibility is really helpful, but it's great. It feels very destructive. There's still people who that they don't know how much they can fit in the plant, they have not been in their plant. Same plant, different life then. So I put into charge the fact that the problem is not fixable with field plants, it's not fixable with macro plants. It's not fixable with an all-in approach.
Celeste Rains-Turk (09:54.501)
Different mindset. So that's when I'm kind of coming to terms with the fact that the problem is not fixable with meal plans. It's not fixable with macro plans. It's not fixable with an all in approach. So what is the thing to be fixed or worked on? It's going to be the mindset, the intention. And that's what I really aim to help people with is create more mindfulness around how they view their body, how they view food.
Cheryl McColgan (10:10.958)
fixed or worked on, going to be the mindset, the intention. And that's what really need to help with is create more mindfulness around how they view their body, how they view good, and make each other more reinforcing versus the product and getting caught up in that outcome. How will you wake them up? How you gotta look? How you're supposed to eat? And instead be very attentive about every decision that was made.
Celeste Rains-Turk (10:23.033)
and making sure that we're really reinforcing the process versus the product and getting caught up in that outcome of how much weight you have to lose, how you got to look, how you're supposed to eat, and instead be very intentional about every decision that's made.
Cheryl McColgan (10:40.83)
When you're describing that, for some reason, it's really making me think of putting it in a perspective of a non-competitor. Let's just say it's somebody that has personal physique goals. They just don't feel good in their body. They'd like to lose some weight. Somehow, in the last several years, and I'm sure you've seen this trend as well on social media, but the whole body positivity movement, and it almost made it for a while there, that it definitely made me feel like in being in this space and stuff and being always kind of
concerned with my health for sure. But also just to be very frank, you know, I never felt good in my body if I started to get, you know, more weight on my body. And it was just a personal thing for me. I never judged other people that had more weight and if they were happy with it, I'm all for it. But it almost became a conversation that we couldn't have. And so I would love to hear your perspective on that in relation to what you just said about mindset and how you kind of reconcile health and the kind of
need for feeling a certain way in your body and the need for even looking a certain way. I don't know if I'm asking that quite right, but I think there's a connection there that is interesting with mindset that I would love to hear you talk about.
Celeste Rains-Turk (11:54.105)
Definitely. Well, it's interesting you say this because when I was looking for internship placement through my master's in clinical mental health counseling, I thought I would go to an eating disorder clinic. I was very interested in this until I was invited to attend one of their like meetings with their staff. And I was really disappointed in the language that they use regarding like health at every size and that movement.
And I realized that me being a person who prioritizes her health and fitness, it was demonized and it could potentially be seen as triggering. And I thought, well, this is really unfortunate because there are people who deserve to be healthy, want to be healthy, want to be able to use their body. And now they're being told that they can't focus on that. They can't prioritize that because then it means they don't
Cheryl McColgan (12:27.209)
a person.
Cheryl McColgan (12:32.343)
in this.
Cheryl McColgan (12:37.778)
unfortunate because there are people who deserve…
Cheryl McColgan (12:46.382)
they're being told that they can't focus on them, they can't find work to do, that it means they
Celeste Rains-Turk (12:52.257)
love and accept their body. At the surface level, health at every size seemed like a good healthy movement, right? You think, okay, any of us at any size can pursue health, but what it turned into was anyone at any size is healthy. Where is the evidence to back that? There isn't evidence to back that. Sure, you have some outliers of people who are obese but incredibly capable of completing
Cheryl McColgan (12:55.435)
on this.
people like to help people a bit, right? They will pay any of us and it will be nice to help. But what it turned into was anyone and it will be nice to help.
Celeste Rains-Turk (13:21.603)
wonderful athletic feats, but are they healthy in all regards? No. And so when we look at this from a body image perspective, there's a fine line between accepting and loving your body and
Cheryl McColgan (13:24.664)
But are they healthy in all regards? No. And so when we look at this from a body image, there's a fine line between accepting and loving your body and…
Celeste Rains-Turk (13:40.67)
self-destruction. A lot of times the self-love movement gets blown out of proportion and it becomes self-destruction. Well, I love myself so I can eat whatever I want. But then you're facing being pre-diabetic at the age of 32. And so what are we really promoting when we say that you don't have to worry about your body? Now, should we be mindful of how we talk about it and how we promote it? Yes.
Cheryl McColgan (13:40.686)
A lot of times self-love movement gets blown out of proportion and it becomes self-destruction. Well, I love myself so I can eat whatever I want. But, you're basically being pre-diabetic at the age of 32. And so we're really promoting what we say that you don't have to worry about your body. Now, should we be mindful of how we talk about it and how we promote it? Yes.
Celeste Rains-Turk (14:09.857)
It shouldn't be, well, if you were less sweet, then you would be more admirable and more valuable and more loved and attractive. I don't know that that's the best language. I think that can actually be quite detrimental and harmful and why we see a lot of young women struggle and young men. But this is why I think a lot of them struggle is because it becomes connected to identity and worth. What we really need to be focused on is what is the value
Cheryl McColgan (14:10.249)
It shouldn't be well, you're less weight than you are at work or valuable or less attractive. I don't know that that's the best language. think that should be quite different from our own mind. see lot of young people struggle and young men, but this is they want to struggle because it becomes effective to identity and order. What we really need to be focused on is what is the value of
Celeste Rains-Turk (14:38.325)
of taking care of your body. If we really were to love ourselves, then naturally we would be inspired to care for ourselves. Similarly, if we think we are really, really intelligent, we're going to be more likely to go after the difficult puzzle, the difficult crossword, the difficult seducule. We think we can manage that. Now, then you put someone over here who doesn't see themselves that way. There might limit their potential.
Cheryl McColgan (14:39.822)
body, if we really were to love ourselves, then naturally we would be inspired to care for ourselves. Similarly, if we think we are really, really intelligent, we're more likely to go after difficult puzzles, difficult crosses, difficult steps, difficult things where we can manage them. Now that you've put someone over here who doesn't see themselves that way, they're not living their potential.
Celeste Rains-Turk (15:06.725)
So this is why I think how we view ourselves, does matter and how we talk about health and how we talk about fitness matters because it's gonna drive what someone ends up doing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look better because let's be honest, when someone feels comfortable and confident in their skin, they're more likely to project the better version of themselves out into the world, the version God has called them to be. We are called to take care of our bodies.
Cheryl McColgan (15:08.334)
We view ourselves, it does matter, and how we talk about health and how we talk about fitness matters. Because it's going to drive what that someone could do. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look better. Because, let's be honest, when someone feels that they're somewhere in their company and they're sick, it's likely to be objective thing. The better version of the health doctor in world, the version of God in the public, will be, we are called to take care of our bodies.
Celeste Rains-Turk (15:35.887)
Does that mean it should become our idol or vanity? No. But should we use it to glorify God? Should we use it to put our mission out into the world and be able to serve our kids and our family and the people we love and do a good job at work? Yes. Yes. So if our body's impeding on our ability to fulfill our values in life, shouldn't we address it? And then we are.
Cheryl McColgan (15:36.28)
Does that mean it should become our idol or fan base? No. But should we use it to glorify God? we use it to put our mission out into the world and be able to serve our kids and our family and the people we love and do a good job at work? Yes. So if our bodies can become our ability to fulfill our values in life, shouldn't we address it?
Celeste Rains-Turk (16:04.303)
begging the questions versus forcing answers on people.
Cheryl McColgan (16:04.686)
I love so much the way that you think about this and talk about this. One of the reason I'm so excited to have you on here because it's funny when I know I know not at all. I mean that was a better answer than you got into my brain and pulled it out of there. No, but I it's just it's so important for people to it's
Celeste Rains-Turk (16:10.907)
Thank you.
I know sometimes I go on tangents, so I apologize.
Celeste Rains-Turk (16:25.623)
that's awesome.
Cheryl McColgan (16:32.814)
And again, like I think it goes back to what I said about it, just how I felt in my body and what I was able to do and what I wanted to accomplish. Like I couldn't accomplish the goals that I wanted in my life when I felt like that. And so, and I like the way that you said, you know, not about letting your body become an idol, but that we are, we should be called to care for ourselves. And so I think bringing that home, I would love to say,
If you have people that you're working with that don't have this great relationship with food, what's the first kind of, mean, first of all, I think what you just said would be like a mind-blowingly good start to that conversation with the person. But how do you approach that with them? How do you get them thinking in that direction? Because we've had this health at all sizes thing and because we've had some of that stuff, how do you get them thinking in that way that you just described? What's some of your first steps with a person that has this, let's say,
You ever heard that saying like stinking thinking that has stinking thinking around food? Like how do you start to work on that with them?
Celeste Rains-Turk (17:29.691)
Mm-hmm.
Celeste Rains-Turk (17:35.237)
Well, that's so true. First of all, I pose my questions to clients in a way that gets their insight and perspective without projecting mine. So instead of me saying something like, wouldn't you like to be able to eat any and all foods? Like sure, for some people that might be true and that is a good question to ask at some point. But in my initial deep dives with
clients, I'm actually having them explore what is my ideal relationship with food? What's my current relationship with food? What are the beliefs I have about different foods? I want to get a big picture of how they actually think. If I can understand what they know or believe about food and their body, I get immediate insight into what drives them, what was behind that drive.
Cheryl McColgan (18:12.492)
I want to get a picture of how they actually think. If I can understand what they
Cheryl McColgan (18:29.454)
into what drives them, or what drives maybe past experiences that led to that too. And then that allows me to create a conversation or communication with those people. We've the relationship with food. Right now, this is a relationship with food that you have. We identify what the gap is, and we're able to start to see, oh, maybe these extreme expectable things I have of myself.
Celeste Rains-Turk (18:33.987)
maybe past experiences that led to that too. And then that allows me to create a conversation or communication that goes, okay, we see that you want this relationship with food. Right now, this is the relationship with food that you have. Now we identify what the gap is and they're able to start to see, maybe these extreme expectations I have of myself are not great. yes, I've always identified as a dieter.
That's why I only associate these foods or these choices with dieting. And if I'm not in diet or mentality, then it's out the window. I recognize that I do label these foods as bad and these ones as good, even though I didn't know that consciously before, I'm seeing that now because these foods scare me and these ones don't. Or these foods I think I'm allowed to have on a diet and these ones I don't. So by getting to how they attach expectations,
Cheryl McColgan (19:29.582)
So by getting to health day, attach expectations to an identity, I've been better able to unravel those expectations and decide what's fair to expect given the outcome that I want, what's unfair to expect from a longevity that I want. And you brought up real key factor there, think, longevity and overall like long-term health, which can often be at odds with some practices in the competitor world, which is a topic for a whole
Celeste Rains-Turk (19:32.795)
to an identity, I'm then better able to work with them to unravel those expectations and decide what's fair to expect given the outcomes that I want, what's unfair to expect given the longevity that I want.
Cheryl McColgan (19:58.286)
different podcasts. But if we're focused on health and longevity, at some point, do you have the conversation about what they're actually eating? Because we don't want to say any foods are bad or good. Completely 100 % agree with that. And it's actually funny because a lot of my content is around low carb keto approach. And there's a lot of reason for that. I don't want to go into a whole bunch of details. But the primary thing that I've always promoted and I've always believed in is just eat mostly whole foods.
Celeste Rains-Turk (19:59.163)
Hahaha
Cheryl McColgan (20:27.982)
And I think that that's the most nourishing food that you can eat. So you have that on one side, you have creating some kind of balance in the middle. And then on the other side, you have people that are truly eating things that really aren't food and that probably at some point should be addressed if their goal is health and longevity. And I always say, hey, it depends on your goals, right? Like for example, when you're eating to fuel training, serious training, that's a way different goal than eating to lose 20 pounds.
Anyway, I would love to have your thoughts on that. How do you or do you begin to approach that with people at some point given that their goal is health and longevity? Do you start to actually look at what they're eating a little bit, even though we're not calling it battered good? I would just love to hear your perspective.
Celeste Rains-Turk (21:12.545)
Yeah, what a great question. I love this conversation because a lot of the times people when they're working with me, they're like surprised when I tell them we're going to do some exposure therapy with foods that would be considered not food. Do you know what I mean? Like let's say Oreos or something or cookies. They're like shocked, you know, and I'm like, okay, I'm not telling you that this has to become a normal part of your diet, nor am I promoting it being a normal part of your diet.
Cheryl McColgan (21:30.009)
Yeah.
Celeste Rains-Turk (21:42.425)
But the fact of the matter is most of these interactions you've had with this food have been associated with overeating or binge eating. If we can change the association you have with that food and we allow it to become a choice, you're gonna be less likely to actually binge and overeat on it. So as.
Cheryl McColgan (21:53.838)
you have with that food and feed them. Like we need to actually binge and overeat on it.
Celeste Rains-Turk (22:04.399)
But naturally then, because we've practiced exposure and we've changed your association with that food, we've changed it from this is a food that's scary and I binge on it and it's bad for me to this is a food I can control myself around and I recognize how it makes me feel versus other foods and therefore if I want to have birthday cake at my son's birthday party, it's fine. I can trust myself to have that one and also I can have the other things that make me feel good there. I'm good with that versus it turning into a free for all.
Cheryl McColgan (22:06.752)
practices over.
Cheryl McColgan (22:11.799)
area that I made.
Cheryl McColgan (22:16.75)
and I recognize how it makes me feel versus other fans and therefore…
Cheryl McColgan (22:23.442)
Party
Celeste Rains-Turk (22:33.061)
So do we talk about what people are eating or do I have that conversation? Yes, because oftentimes clients are worried, well, I don't want to put that food in my body. I don't feel good eating sugar. And I'm like, of course you don't feel good because usually when you eat sugar, you're having way too much of it at once. So you don't feel good. And then you get scared of it. And this cycle repeats because you restrict. then because you restrict, you're basically telling yourself it's okay to eat that way.
Cheryl McColgan (22:52.782)
So, you know. And then you can stay out of it and then like over-reduce it to something strict and then we can restrict your basic self-emotions and so on. then you do it again, and again, again. Then we interrupt that cycle. We say, okay, can trust myself in this good way. It's very difficult. And then we expose hierarchy, which, that's a little other explanation, but we make her out what's the best way to expose it. We take it like the light of it, essentially. And then…
Celeste Rains-Turk (23:02.905)
and then you do it again and again and again. Instead we interrupt that cycle. We say, okay, I can trust myself with these foods by integrating them in an exposure hierarchy, which that's a whole other explanation, but we figure out what's the best way to expose them to it. We take it like a mental vitamin essentially. And then by the end of it, they're like, I'm not even thinking about that cereal anymore. I don't even care about the ice cream that's in my fridge. So we're not saying eat all the ice cream. We're saying,
Cheryl McColgan (23:22.062)
at the end of it they're like, oh I'm not even gonna like cow dung cereal. Oh, and I don't even care about the ice cream, that's a different fridge. So we're not saying, you know what I'm saying, we're that's not even a food, whatever you want. Let's explore the city. Even try to view that food so you're less likely to go over it. See if it's more likely to feel the good power to choose. If you have the power to choose, you can rise and howl with more light before the child that's the nourishing option for yourself.
Celeste Rains-Turk (23:32.035)
Instead of doing an all in approach where you eat whatever you want, let's do slow exposure that actually changes how you view that food so you're less likely to over consume it and more likely to feel that you have the power to choose. When you have the power to choose, you would be surprised at how much more likely you are to choose the best, most nourishing option for yourself. But it's when you restrict yourself and you tell yourself, no, no, no, you turn into that toddler who's like.
Cheryl McColgan (23:53.644)
no?
Celeste Rains-Turk (23:56.045)
looking at the candy bowl like, okay, I really want it. And mom said to wait until I come back in the room and or you become the person in COVID who all the toilet paper is about to go out. So you buy all of it and you don't need to and then you become fixated because anything we restrict, end up fixating on and we remove the restriction. We also remove the fixation. Therefore we remove the consumption.
Cheryl McColgan (24:07.726)
Wow.
Cheryl McColgan (24:14.894)
I love that. Yeah, no, I love that explanation. And it's interesting because over the years, people have said that to me like, you can't have that or something like that. I know you don't like bread or something like like, no, I love bread.
Celeste Rains-Turk (24:33.123)
girl give me that bread i like sourdough put it in the air fryer cover it in real butter that's money
Cheryl McColgan (24:39.894)
and a little salt on top too. So good. But anyway, I know. But so when I say that, I'm like, no, I just choose not to have that because, know, X, Y, Z, it's, you know, I got to get in my protein for the day. I choose that because I know that that's a priority for me. And other reasons I put it, I've always put it in the frame of choice. So I would love if you could share more about that, because I think that is such a
Celeste Rains-Turk (24:43.266)
speaking to me.
Cheryl McColgan (25:06.093)
powerful mindset shift and I've talked about it in the past, but I think it's always awesome to hear it from somebody else's mouth because you have a different way of saying things, you have different way of connecting with people. the power of choice, I think that is a hugely great topic in food.
Celeste Rains-Turk (25:22.203)
Definitely. mean, I, I know, Cheryl, I could go tomorrow and get a slice of pizza if I wanted to. And I wouldn't binge. I'd be able to stop at one and I'd be able to move on. There's so much power in knowing I could do that. So much power. There was a version of me that would have been like, I need to get the whole box and I got to eat all of it. And then since I already ate the pizza, now I to get the donuts and since I got the donuts, I'm going to eat this. And then tomorrow I'll get back on it. I'll be better. I'll be better.
So there's power in knowing you can choose to have something and not have it turn into a free for all. This is what then equips me to choose the most nourishing thing to my goals and to my body. So how I like to look at it is we want to make a choice that satisfies our goals and satisfies our values and satisfies nutrition. Sometimes fellowship, let's say, or connection or culture.
Cheryl McColgan (26:01.009)
Great.
Cheryl McColgan (26:17.464)
Thank you.
Celeste Rains-Turk (26:20.513)
is going to be more fulfilled in that choice than say nutrient value. That's okay. Similarly, me being deep in prep, I'm sacrificing some nutrient value for what? For an extreme physique. But will I continue that forever? No. Do I know that after this we're going to be building up food again and I get to push that food up and we get to incorporate a variety? Yes.
Cheryl McColgan (26:22.164)
fulfilled in that choice that's
Cheryl McColgan (26:36.906)
extreme disease but will I continue that forever? No. Do I know that after this we're going to be building up food again? push that food up? a variety? Yes. What's so beautiful about that is I get to choose how I will fill that. And so when I think about choice and think about choice is what creates your tomorrow. So what you're choosing now is going to create what happens tomorrow.
Celeste Rains-Turk (26:48.889)
And what's so beautiful about that is I get to choose how I fulfill that. And so when I think about choice, think about choice is what creates your tomorrow. So what you're choosing now is going to create what happens tomorrow. And then when you are 80 years old and you look back on all the choices you've made every day, all the habits, food aside, any habit, that is what actually made up your life. So if we can take a zoom out approach like that.
Cheryl McColgan (27:11.666)
That is what actually made up your life.
Celeste Rains-Turk (27:18.627)
I think it can snap us into reality of, okay, this choice actually does matter. And sometimes the choice that matters more is my health and my nutrition and my longevity and my confidence and my, my energy. And sometimes the choice that matters is like I told a client yesterday, I'm like, why don't you just have a pizza day with your family?
Cheryl McColgan (27:37.464)
Why have pizza day with your family?
Celeste Rains-Turk (27:42.755)
why? You know, like what is so wrong about that? What is so bad about doing that every once in a while? And if she would give herself the freedom to choose that, I don't think she'd be thinking about it or wanting it as much. So choice to me is knowing there's a lot of influential factors, all those choices will make up your life at the end of the day.
Cheryl McColgan (27:43.454)
you know?
Cheryl McColgan (27:57.039)
So, there's a lot of influential factors and then all of them come to life at the end of the day. Yeah, and I think what you mentioned about the cultural and connection and other goals are arguably just as or maybe even more important in some situations. And I think, again, there's that idea of finding balance. know, but when you were just describing PrEP, what occurred to me is like, OK, well, that's, you know, that's it's basically an extreme diet.
But what I love about it is that there are some parameters around it. And think this is what happens to people that just get in the diet mentality. Like they quit having parameters. So whether it's a date goal or a weight loss goal, like after I lose 10 pounds, maybe I just stay at maintenance for a while, something like that. In the book I had that I said something about, you know, take diet breaks and that the research behind diet breaks shows that people kind of lose the same amount of weight. But I think what they fail.
to realize is the psychological aspect of diet breaks. And I'll just give you an example. Like I've been in a fat loss phase myself for several weeks now, and we just went to Cabo for the weekend. And so I did still track and I did still, you know, I was mindful of still getting my protein and stuff, but I, to me that mental break and that time away with my husband and you know, experiencing a new place and experiencing new food was more valuable.
Celeste Rains-Turk (29:06.126)
That's awesome.
Cheryl McColgan (29:24.706)
than sticking to a strict diet for really what reason? For I'm healthy, I'm just having a physique goal. It's because the goal is not as important as that. Does that make any sense? And I think some professionals miss that point with the diet break or with the stay at maintenance for a while and just quit dieting for a little bit. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that. Have you had people have success with that or does some people, is it just harder for them because they…
Celeste Rains-Turk (29:33.307)
Yeah.
Celeste Rains-Turk (29:37.035)
yeah, absolutely.
Cheryl McColgan (29:52.482)
they either kind of have an all or nothing mentality. I'd love to hear your experience with clients on that.
Celeste Rains-Turk (29:57.435)
That's exactly what I was about to say. People are scared to do it because they associate dieting with extremes. so that pendulum swing from I'm dieting, so I'm here. The thought of even implementing a diet break is too much of a gray area because they're like, well, if I'm not dieting, but I'm dieting, what am I doing? I might as well just go crazy. And then now I'll diet harder. Extremes are very predictable for people, which is why they're attractive. But when you go to Cabo and you only track maybe a little bit,
The outcome of that is unpredictable compared to if you have this strict data set that you manipulate it very perfectly and you would know exactly what happened. Two plus two equals four. So what people miss though is the gray area is where your life is going to be establishing like that longevity. The ability to like, I was on prep early prep. went on a cruise, brought my food scale and I did eat like
appropriately, but it was awesome that I could do that while on prep and weigh things out. And then my scale, I don't know where it went, lost it. And I was like, but I trust myself enough. Like I can get through these last couple of days without issues. And in my improvement season, we went to Austria and I was like, I am not tracking. Like I have more important things to do here in Austria. Like I'm going to go hike mountains for five hours a day. Like that's what we're going to do. Or I'm going to hang out at the hotel at the spa. And that's what I'm going to do. So.
Cheryl McColgan (31:00.301)
that well.
Cheryl McColgan (31:10.318)
And then my.
you.
Cheryl McColgan (31:20.378)
Right.
Celeste Rains-Turk (31:26.555)
Tracking wasn't even on my radar then. And what that does is it shows me, and I think it will show others, psychologically, they can actually still achieve their goals, still feel good, and satisfy other life areas. And the world doesn't stop. Their diet doesn't stop. Their body keeps responding and probably responds even better. And then you're more excited to get back at it or get into that zone again because
you've experienced this relief. And it wasn't just a one day thing where you had a free for all and now you're like, I feel so bad. I need to get back on track. It's more like, okay, I really enjoyed that time away with my husband. I feel fulfilled and now, and I made choices that I feel really confident in. So this is no problem.
Cheryl McColgan (32:12.812)
Yeah, and I just for some reason, it's really hard to transfer that to some people, but I think it is a more of a mindset thing. And I kind of feel like it goes back to that all or nothing, the extremes that you talked about, because I think you're right. think people can wrap their head around that, but it's maybe more difficult when you actually try to, you know, because there's always a vacation. There's always an event. There's always a birthday. There's always an opportunity to have drinks with friends at night. So and I think some of us have kind of
cracked the nut on this at least a little bit, how to figure out how to balance it. And then others, like, it just keeps repeating the cycle because there's always that next excuse. Can you maybe speak to that and how you work with people to more easily find balance or to, I don't know if you'd say it's like mitigate the extremes a little bit. And with competitors, it kind of is extreme because there'll be like prep, prep, prep, and then it'll be build, build, build. And so it's kind of like,
But in that way, that is kind of similar to the extreme. So I don't know, do you kind of, do you feel where I'm going? I just love to hear your thoughts on it because I think, I think you're really onto something there that it's hard for, or it's easier for people to understand the extremes, harder to understand this in between space.
Celeste Rains-Turk (33:12.579)
Yeah. Yeah.
Celeste Rains-Turk (33:25.295)
Definitely. Well, from a competitor standpoint, what's strange is even in your improvement season, you're still on, you know, you're still tracking, you're still being mindful of how much you're eating and you're focused on that. And maybe it's not as strict. Maybe there's some days where it's more intuition behind it or there's more flexibility, but there is still that level of, well, there is going to be a prep in the future. And when you're in prep, there's really, I mean,
There is no birthday cake, you know, there's just not, unless you feel very confident in the cake that you bought or made and you can track it and you feel good about using your macros for it. Great. but oftentimes that's not going to be the case. So this is what makes it difficult also for people to come out of prep because then they're like, well, how do I start enjoying those things? Or I should only prep when it's during the
Cheryl McColgan (34:10.488)
This is what makes you different.
Celeste Rains-Turk (34:21.803)
XYZ time of year because then I'm not dealing with the holidays and having to miss that. I've prepped through holidays so many times and generally speaking, like my coach is like, just enjoy your day. It's not a big deal. You know, like it's just eat normal and move on and check in and we'll be good. But
Cheryl McColgan (34:33.901)
Bye.
Celeste Rains-Turk (34:42.393)
When you tell someone that who's so used to associating results with dieting, that's very scary. And that also highlights that many of them are too focused on the result and not on the process. So when we think about balance, I oftentimes will say, I believe balance is the sister of perfection and perfectionism disguises itself in the name of balance.
Cheryl McColgan (34:58.562)
now.
Cheryl McColgan (35:08.142)
there.
Celeste Rains-Turk (35:11.257)
Balance makes us believe that if you put all the things of our life on a scale, it will be like this. But sometimes it is gonna be like this and sometimes it's gonna be like this. And technically this is balanced as well at times because maybe 20 % of your energy is going here and 80 % of your energy is going here. But that's actually good for the circumstances of your life right now. Okay, your family members in the hospital and 20 % of your energy is going to food and movement.
Cheryl McColgan (35:32.568)
life.
Cheryl McColgan (35:36.525)
Thank
Celeste Rains-Turk (35:38.907)
80 % of your energy is going to that family member in the hospital. We're not going to try to strive for 50-50 during a circumstance like that. So why do we expect that when we go on vacation or why do we expect that when we're at a nice outing with family or friends or we go to even to a restaurant? You think that they're going to weigh everything perfectly for you back there? No.
Cheryl McColgan (35:43.601)
We're not going to try to strive for a 50 % or anything like that. So we don't expect that when we go on vacation or why do we expect that when we're out at night outing with family and friends. Or we go to even a restaurant and they put their middle weight on it.
Celeste Rains-Turk (36:03.147)
As far as like the extremes go, I think it generally just shows people are way too focused on the outcome, the outcome, the outcome. They don't want to sacrifice the outcome. But what they miss is that if you don't engage in some sort of flexibility and sometimes breaks or taking time away, then all you're doing is sacrificing the long-term ability to maintain that outcome. We want to do
Cheryl McColgan (36:03.32)
you
Cheryl McColgan (36:13.422)
Thank
Cheryl McColgan (36:19.886)
great.
This is sacrifice equal to one.
Cheryl McColgan (36:29.102)
you
Celeste Rains-Turk (36:30.393)
the least amount of work to get the most amount of result, right? So if you have to extreme, extreme diet and remove everything else from your life in order to get a result, and then you pendulum swing back, was that really a successful approach? No, if you always have to say, gotta get back on track, the track is probably broken. So it's better to say, what kind of track could I follow? What kind of plan could I follow? That allows me to push myself enough that
Cheryl McColgan (36:31.982)
to get the most out of the soul, right? So if you have to stream extreme diet, everything else will
that you can once we back. That really is a custom approach. know, always have to say I gotta get my butt tracked.
to say what kind of track I call them and what kind I call them. That allows me to push myself enough that I can't go on helping them until the same day I'm fully into my new living, do some things. But also is it so challenging that I couldn't see myself growing into saving and feeling good if I had a bad day? So…
Celeste Rains-Turk (36:58.371)
I gain more confidence and self-esteem and belief in my ability to do difficult things, but also isn't so challenging that I couldn't see myself growing and sustaining it or feeling good if I had a bad day. So it's almost essential in my opinion to have time away from the extremes in order to then actually see results for your life long-term.
Cheryl McColgan (37:15.902)
and have time away from the constraints in order to then actually build life. Yeah, that was a, I love that thought process and I hope that that helps people think about in terms of, well, that we're talking kind of more about dieting specifically there, but I think it kind of applies to your relationship to food as well because if you make good choices most of the time and this seems
kind of intuitive to most people, think. If you make good choices most of the time, you're gonna probably get closer to your goals. If you make poor choices most of the time, you're gonna be further away from your goals. So not to oversimplify it, I mean, it's a simple concept, but it's in practice pretty challenging, right? So Celeste, this has been so wonderful. And I know some of this conversation, some of it we talked about diet, some of it we talked about relationship to food.
Celeste Rains-Turk (37:55.419)
Right.
That's good.
Cheryl McColgan (38:12.11)
But one of the things I love about your website is you have all of these great free resources that are talking about how to improve your relationship with food, how to make it more easy to reach your goals, whatever those are, whether it's a physique goal, whether it's a health and longevity goal. Can you share with people about some of your free resources? And then in addition, I know you also do some speaking, you have a book, just…
any ways that people can get the knowledge out of your brain and into their own.
Celeste Rains-Turk (38:42.133)
You're so sweet. So celestial.fit that's my website, www.celestial.fit. If you're not on Instagram or Facebook, I post all my blog posts onto that website too. So if you prefer to stay off social media, you can read all the blogs there. As far as the free resources go, I have a free food relationship coaching series. It's an eight day series. You will get a psycho educational video in your inbox every day, along with an entire workbook.
to work through the process and you can send me your work as you go and I will provide feedback. I give feedback to everybody on their stuff. I mean, I don't know why I do that. It's a very time consuming process with everything else I have going on. And sometimes I'm like, my gosh, but it's great. love supporting people through that process. And then I have some other freebies. As you mentioned, I have a free mindless snacking workshop. That's for anybody. I have a…
Cheryl McColgan (39:16.078)
Thank
Cheryl McColgan (39:37.102)
You're welcome.
Celeste Rains-Turk (39:40.005)
free post-show blues coaching program if your competitor's struggling with that. And then the podcast is lit on there. And my book is Believe Your Way to Badass. So I wrote that years and years ago now, but I highly recommend it if you're looking for ways to change the way you think about yourself and allow that to change your behaviors. That's a good book to start. And I have something in there called Operation Badass where I basically walk you through a process for…
Cheryl McColgan (39:42.574)
there.
Cheryl McColgan (39:57.495)
No.
Cheryl McColgan (40:06.094)
Thank
Celeste Rains-Turk (40:07.639)
goal setting that will allow you to, in the book, I say manifest what it is that you want for your reality. I would have maybe said that differently now, but I was 19 when I wrote it. yeah, visit www.celestial.fit. You'll see everything there and you can contact me if that's to come on your podcast and speak or it's to come do a speaking engagement, whatever it is, ask a question. You can reach me there.
Cheryl McColgan (40:19.305)
You
Cheryl McColgan (40:35.67)
And you forgot to mention one other thing. See, I told you I was stalking you. But you said out that you're having a wellness retreat for people that are into fitness and you only had a couple spots left. So maybe you stop that out there.
Celeste Rains-Turk (40:39.003)
Celeste Rains-Turk (40:44.195)
Yes!
my gosh. Yes. I'm so glad that you said that because literally someone just told me like, you should talk about this on the podcast that you go on and that you host because that's how I found out about it. I'm like, duh. So yes, thank you. I am hosting a retreat August 1st through 4th this year, 2025 in Greenville, South Carolina. It's going to be an intimate experience at my home. We're going to have
I say we're gonna have a private chef. My husband is the private chef, but he is actually, he went to school for culinary arts. So he's gonna be doing a private chef experience for us. We're gonna have a really fun time with workouts. Obviously there's gonna be mental health workshops throughout the entire event. We're gonna have like time for pool or pickleball or bachamel and relaxation as well. And then I have some surprise activities in store.
If you want more information on that, the best way to get in touch is by either social media or email. The contact information is on my website for that, or you can email celeste at celestial.fit. Let me know you're interested in coming and I'll send you all the information on how we do that. It's for females only and females who are interested in fitness or competing.
Cheryl McColgan (42:02.796)
Awesome. Well, Celeste, thank you so much again for taking the time to do this today. I love the conversation. I could talk to you all day, but I want to be respectful of your time. So thank you so much, and I hope we stay in touch.
Celeste Rains-Turk (42:10.235)
Aww.
Thank you.
