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In this episode Courtney and I discuss living with type one diabetes. She is extremely active and involved in bodybuilding, which has made managing her type one diabetes more difficult. However, through a keto diet she is more easily able to manage her type one diabetes and keep her A1C down. Keto and diabetes just go together! More and more evidence is coming out that using a low carb diet to manage diabetes works amazingly well and quickly.

She gives some of her best advice for starting keto whether you have diabetes or not.

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CONNECT WITH CHERYL

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CONNECT WITH COURTNEY

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Cheryl McColgan So welcome everyone. I'm joined here today by Courtney. Courtney is a wonderful lady that I have been following for a while on Instagram, and she utilizes the keto lifestyle to help manage her type one diabetes. Welcome Courtney.

Courtney Lillich Hi. Thank you.

Cheryl McColgan Thanks for joining me. If you can maybe just start out by… obviously, if people are listening to this on the audio version, I read your bio, and so they already know a little bit about you. But can you say in your own words a little bit about your background and how you came to start eating in this way.

Diabetes and Keto: Improving A1C in Type One Diabetic

Courtney Lillich So, I'm type one diabetic and I've been insulin dependent since I was three, now I'm 38, so it's been quite a while. And because I'm very active, I do bodybuilding and boxing, all kinds of workouts and exercises, that sounds great like, “Oh, you're gonna be so healthy.” But it's hard to manage the blood sugar levels, they go up and down, up and down, and so my doctor, my endocrinologist has always had a hard time with me in particular, my A1C levels haven't been great. And then I also have a coach for my body building competitions. And I did competitions probably for four or five years, and then my body just was like, “Okay, I'm done, I'm done with it for a while.” So I still… I kept… I still have the coach, and my body just wasn't responding to the usual diet and workout regimen that typical bodybuilders use, like the carbs, and the diabetes I think it's part of that too. So he just said, probably in 2019, I hadn't even really heard of keto before. I've heard of it, but in my head it was like, “Oh, all you do is eat almonds and butter and fat, just bad stuff like that.” And I was like, “I would never wanna do that ever.”

Courtney Lillich But then he mentioned it and he said, “Hey, you've heard of keto, let's… We should just try it out.” And I read more about it, and it's not a… Like I said, it's not a typical bodybuilders diet, so I said, “Why not, let's just try it, and then I realized it was good for blood sugars and I just… It was really hard to switch over, but I'm super focused and dedicated if I'm trying to do something. I was on it for a year and it helped my blood sugar levels, and I was able to lose some weight on it, and yeah, that's how I fell into it.

Cheryl McColgan That's awesome. Well, so just to give some people background. Maybe some people listening to this aren't as… I think everybody at this point is pretty familiar with Type two diabetes, which is an adult-onset process, usually brought on by poor metabolic health and sometimes as a result of years of abusing your body with a lot of processed foods and a lot of sugar. But type one is quite different because it's really considered an autoimmune disease, correct? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl McColgan So at some point your body basically had attacked your pancreas and your body is no longer able to make any insulin at all, so is that how you would characterize the difference? 

Type One Diabetes is an Autoimmune Disease

Courtney Lillich Yeah, when I tell people, 'cause people that aren't familiar with the two different types, basically, but you look so healthy, you don't look like you're diabetic. But that's the problem is it's… You could be super healthy, but if it's an autoimmune disease, it's still attacking the pancreas and no matter what, you're never gonna start having that insulin ever again. So, unless there's some cure which of course I'm always hoping for, it's pretty much… I don't know anything else 'cause I've had it for so long. So I have to have… I had an insulin pump and also a continuous glucose monitor, which is a recent development in the past few years. But I also have to have the insulin attached to me, I can't make any whatsoever.

Cheryl McColgan Because this is also a new idea to some people, I've done some reading of the research and seeing as you have a background, you have a doctorate degree in… Was it… Remind me again. It's physical therapy, right? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah, I have a doctorate in physical therapy, and then my undergrad is in athletic training, and then I got a certification in strength and conditioning.

Cheryl McColgan So obviously you've had a lot of education in how the body works, how physiology works, right? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl McColgan And yet for some reason, it wasn't until the last couple year or two that you heard about possibly using a diet like keto to manage your blood sugar. I'd be really interested to hear what your experiences about diabetes and keto as you transitioned to keto and how managing your blood sugar has changed since you changed your diet.

Diabetes and Keto: Keto Evens Out Blood Sugar

Courtney Lillich Well, the level… Again, I'm not… My A1C still is not perfect 'cause I still work out a ton and we're… It's always a process for me, but I noticed with the keto, when I first first started it, the first week, my blood sugar levels were perfect and they didn't go up and down and up and down, and it's just 'cause you basically take those carbs out. ‘Cause when you have the carbs, it's like the body didn't have the insulin, and things kind of go all over the place. But my A1C level did go down initially, and then my body just wasn't responding after… I was on keto for a year. So my coach said, “Well, let's go off it for a while, do the carbs,” and then I noticed everything was spiking again the second I stopped keto. I went off of keto probably for four, five months, the beginning of 2020, and I said, “Hey, I wanna go back on keto, I wanna see if maybe I just needed to be off it for a little bit,” and so I've been back on it for eight weeks now, and I lost five pounds and then my A1C level went down.

Cheryl McColgan And also, just in case, I think probably people that are listening to this are pretty familiar with A1C, but that's actually your average blood sugars over the last three months, right? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl McColgan And so, what would be typical in trying to manage your diabetes before? What was your A1C before you really started to get a good handle on it? 

A1C Levels in Type One Diabetes and Keto

Courtney Lillich Well, it's very high still, but just going… I had spiked up when I went back on carbs. It was at 8.9, which is very, very high. But then after only seven weeks on keto, it went down to eight-ish. So that's a big… That's a big jump down decrease just in seven weeks. And my doctor wants me around 7.0, but non-diabetics are probably five or 6.0 if we look at the reference.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. Actually, I think I have to look at the reference range and maybe I can put that in text here on the video. But I think mine has been in the fours since I've been on keto, but I'm not type one diabetic though, so that's a little easier for my body to accomplish. But I think you actually start getting out of the reference range, maybe in the high fives. I know six is definitely diabetic or pre-diabetic. For most people they want some range between maybe four and a half and five and a half, something like that. Because you don't have a pancreas, obviously your body has more of a challenge in maintaining that level.

Courtney Lillich Yeah, then it's… All my other lab work, blood work, everything else is perfect, but it's always that A1C that… ‘Cause I'm diabetic. So I'm always trying to control it, but still do the workouts and everything I love to do. Hopefully, it keeps going lower and lower if I stick to the keto.

Keto for Bodybuilding

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. And it'll be interesting to follow up with you 'cause I think before… How long had you been on it the first time that you tried it? Because you initially tried it more for the body building than for blood sugar management, right? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah. And then, I just happened to see how good it did go on the keto and nothing against my endocrinologist, but no one had ever mentioned keto to me for diabetes management. And… But it was my coach that actually was the one that brought it up and I'm like, “Oh my God, this is helping both.” So that's how I… That's why I liked it. It was like two things in one.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, no, that's pretty amazing. And just for other background information on managing diabetes, so you have… I think you told me you have an insulin pump, correct? That's basically it installed in your body at this point. And then, use the continuous glucose monitor. For those that aren't familiar with the continuous glucose monitor. It's something that goes… I've had one too. You probably saw that just for fun or for purposes of what I write about is I tried one. It goes on the back of your arm. It actually has a little teeny and then it doesn't hurt to put it on, but it has a teeny little pin that goes into your interstitial fluid, which is actually a proxy for your blood sugar. It's not a direct measure, but it basically shows trends throughout the day. So maybe can… Did you have the glucose monitor prior to trying keto or no? 

Courtney Lillich Prior to keto? I had just started it. Yeah, I had just started it, so I haven't had the the glucose monitor the CGM. I haven't had it that long. But this is the insulin pump.

Cheryl McColgan Oh, nice.

Courtney Lillich This is what gives me my insulin. I've had this for a long time.

Cheryl McColgan And so does it… Does that monitor your blood sugar as well? Or you just release that when you need it? 

Courtney Lillich Well. The glucose monitor talks to the insulin pump and now… Which is what makes it so great. It talks to the insulin pump and it adjusts the insulin levels for me. And that's something else that's been helping with my blood sugar levels along with the keto.

Cheryl McColgan So that's a more automatic thing somewhat now that it used to be having it attached to the continuous. And so, what did you notice if anything with the continuous glucose monitor, what were some things that you were surprised about? And I think most people get freaked out when they test their blood sugars, because they don't know that exercise increases your blood sugar level, right? Which is maybe one of the challenges that you have with your A1C, because you do work out a lot. So maybe you could talk about that relationship and what you noticed on the monitor.

Continuous Glucose Monitor Insights

Courtney Lillich Well, what I was noticing was that I would do cardio and I… You can see the graph of your blood sugar and it would start dropping. And I didn't even noticed before I had the glucose monitor, but then I noticed when I started lifting weights, cause I'll do cardio, then I'll go lift some weights. When you lift weights it makes the body release the glycogen out of the muscle and which starts increasing your levels. So it really helps me to be like, “Okay, my blood sugar is dropping.” Maybe I should stop the cardio right now and switch over to lifting the weight so that I don't have to eat something instead and make things… Yeah. So I'm trying to do it without eating and spiking any more insulin.

Cheryl McColgan No, that's very interesting application of that. Probably some most people wouldn't think about? 

Courtney Lillich [laughter] No.

Cheryl McColgan And you also did some when you're saying bodybuilding I also notice you did bikini contest at one time, is that something you're still doing? 

Diabetes and Keto: Bikini Competitions

Courtney Lillich Yeah, it was a bikini division that I did. Gosh, I did a ton of different shows and it requires a lot of working out and diet and you count your macros and it's very specific and I fell in love with it. So I did all of those shows, but the last one I did was in 2018 and I said, “Well.” I did them for years in a row. So I said, “I gotta take a break.” So I took a break, but I'm still doing all the crazy workouts and the dieting too. I'm hoping at some point I might be able to go back, but for now it's just the workout.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. And how was that when you would do the shows with having the insulin pump? And did you notice that the stress of doing a show had any impact on how you were feeling in blood sugars and that sort of thing? 

Courtney Lillich Oh yeah. Especially on the show day, 'cause you're just really stressed out and… So my blood… I didn't have the CGM at that time, so I would just take my blood sugar level with a finger prick, and it would be in the 300s when I'm about to walk out of the stage, and it's just… It was crazy 'cause you didn't want it to be super low, 'cause if you get low, then you get foggy and dizzy and you can't… You might fall on stage, and you don't wanna do that. So you're eating candy on the side just to make sure you're fine, and it would… Yeah, it's very stressful. And then, once you're done with the show, of course, all the body builders, the first thing they wanna do is eat donuts and go get a hamburger, or my thing was nachos. So I would try to take a ton of insulin after my show and try to counteract everything that my body hadn't been eating for months, and it just… The roller coaster was… With the blood sugar levels was… It was difficult.

Cheryl McColgan Well, yeah. More challenging for you than somebody that is not diabetic, obviously. But I think it's something that's under-appreciated by people, is the effect of stress and sleep on blood sugar management. And I think that becomes more apparent when you wear a continuous glucose monitor, whether you're diabetic or not because you can see how individual situations affect your blood sugar outside of food. Diabetes and keto go so well together for blood sugar managment.

Courtney Lillich Well, and then have you heard of the dawn phenomenon…

Cheryl McColgan Yes.

Courtney Lillich When you first wake up? Yeah. So I didn't even… I was just like, I don't pay… I wasn't paying attention to that. But because of the CGM, it was kinda showing me when I first wake up, it would go up, and I was like, “Oh wow, that… ” I just didn't realize this stuff was happening. And I work out really early in the morning, so that kinda helped it would go up a little bit. And then I do my cardio, and that will kinda lower it a little bit. It's just a bunch of trial and error with what little things that could affect your blood sugar level that people don't realize, because… Especially if they're not diabetic, 'cause their body just kinda reacts to it. And it's like I have to every… I think there's… I read something, that diabetics have to make 300 decision a day or something based on what they're eating, how much they're eating, the insulin they have to take, what's affecting it.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. And I will say, I think especially… At least for type tw0 diabetics, they still make insulin, so it's a little different. So once they start really even-ing out their blood sugar throughout the day, that takes away a lot of decision-making, at least in the type two's case, because you no longer… When you don't have those spikes, you don't have those hungry episodes anymore, you don't have that funny woozy feeling like you're getting hypoglycemia, and it's just everything is very easy, and it makes decisions a lot [laughter] easier.

Courtney Lillich Yeah. And then, sometimes people… For foods people… I stay away… Well, definitely 'cause of keto I don't eat pasta… Real pasta stuff. But before keto, I stayed away from bread and the starchy stuff anyways because it wasn't worth it, 'cause it would just spike the blood sugar up so high that I didn't know really how to do it. So I just learned to stay away from some of… Or portion control it. So I'm not even a big fan of bread anyways, which works for keto.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, absolutely.

[laughter]

Practical Advice For Diabetes and Keto

Cheryl McColgan I know. I wish… Probably everybody wishes they could say that, 'cause that's the one thing that I think people have trouble giving… Well, many things that they have trouble giving up when they go keto, but they're like, “Oh, what do I do for a sandwich, or, what would do about… ” Whatever. So since you've done this for so long, and I know you haven't been fully keto, but you have monitored your food for various reasons, whether it's the bodybuilding competitions or whether it's trying to control your blood sugar, you realized even without them telling you keto that, obviously, that bread might not be worth it 'cause it just sends your blood sugar so high. Do you have any practical advice for people that are just starting to get the idea that, “Hey, maybe this reducing carbs and sugar is a good idea,” and how they might go about doing that in the beginning, some things that you learned along the way? 

Courtney Lillich Oh, if they're just starting out on keto? 

Cheryl McColgan Yes.

Courtney Lillich Practical stuff. So I count my macros, so I know if… My coach gave me certain amounts to eat, but if people aren't really kinda monitoring in the beginning, sometimes they have no idea if they're really eating the enough percentage of the fats versus a little tiny bit of carbs, and then the protein 'cause I read up on some people that will just… Or it seems like they just eat everything they can that has to do with fat, but… Yes, keto is high fats, but you need to make sure it's good fat. It can't just be the disgusting oil, and… It's really… I like to do my research with all the foods and stuff that I put in my body. So I had to really figure out what kinda fats were good fats versus not good fats. And I didn't want my cholesterol to be really bad either because of the types of fats I was eating. ‘Cause initially, it did spike up, my cholesterol, and then I started monitoring the types of fats I ate, and it sounds annoying in the beginning, but then you get used to it, and you know which ones are the healthier kind.

Cheryl McColgan Right. And I think, just to follow up on that point, for people that are new, the two things that I would recommend that you avoid like the plague, and there's some other… You would like this, since you like research. There's some other evidence right now that stearic acid versus linoleic acid, it has to do with polyunsaturated fats. So for… If anybody doesn't know about polyunsaturated fats, it's basically anything that they're making into an oil that should have never been oil to start with, like soybeans or corn. Those are the two… Soy-bean, corn, canola, avoid those like the plague, basically. They're just…they really affect you on a cellular level. They actually tell your fat cells not to release fat, is what it boils down to, to put it in layman's terms. But there's some interesting science around that. So I love the fact that you were focused on finding really healthy fats to use as energy in your diet. ‘Cause basically, fat and carbs are both energy, and you're just replacing one with the other, basically, once you go keto.

Courtney Lillich Yeah, yeah. And then… When my fat… My HDL, LDL initially when I first started keto it spiked up super high and then my doctor was like, “Well, I don't know if keto is good for you 'cause look how high and… ” And I said, “Well, if you look at the research, it's gonna go up a little bit but it depends on… ” I had to teach her about it. But then it was a little bit higher than I wanted. So once I focused in on the types of fats, it lowered back down. And my doctor at the next appointment she's like, “Did you stop keto? What did you do?” And I was like, “No, I just paid attention to what the heck I was eating.”

Cheryl McColgan Right. What I think people don't realize that cholesterol is very transient marker, and there's actually this guy, Dave Feldman, that talks a lot on keto podcasts and stuff, and he does a lot of research on cholesterol. And he can manipulate cholesterol as much as 200 points in either direction.

Courtney Lillich [chuckle] Oh my gosh.

Cheryl McColgan Just by what he eats and by fasting. It's really, really interesting. So I would just say for everybody, consider about cholesterol. It's a snapshot in time, and so especially if you're making a big change, like keto, for example, you might find that those numbers change quite a bit, but then in your experience, it all settled back down, and particularly when you were even more focused on, “Okay, I'm gonna eat these better kinds of fats for me,” and it seemed to make things be more in line after a while.

Courtney Lillich Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl McColgan That's a good one. Any particular favorite keto substitute kind of… Because you've been around my page and stuff that I'm really about Whole Foods, keto and clean keto and all of that. But in the beginning when people are transitioning, it can be challenging, right? So were there any products that you found that are little replacement things or treats or something that helped it make it easier for you to transition back? I know you said you're a super focused person, so it might be easier for you, but just for other people that might…

Keto Sugar Substitutes

Courtney Lillich Oh no. I'm very… I love my sweets, but I've had to find the keto sweets instead. Not to talk bad about the keto companies, but there's a lot… Just because it says keto on the bag, doesn't mean it's good for you.

Cheryl McColgan Yes. [chuckle]

Courtney Lillich I had to learn that too. ‘Cause now, I look at the ingredients and I'm like, “Oh, that's not good. That's not good. That's not good.” And it would just kinda… It just wasn't good. But I do like making the cheesecake, keto versions of cheesecakes. Those are the sweets, the treats that I eat. But I use the swerve loaf, in a…

Cheryl McColgan The sugar? 

Courtney Lillich Splenda sweetener, sugar things. ‘Cause those didn't spike my blood sugar but something… I don't know if other diabetics have noticed this or not that do keto, soluble corn fibre. Have you ever heard about that? 

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, well, its not good [laughter] in multiple ways. A lot of people have GI issues with it.

Courtney Lillich I found that.

Keto Treats and Soluble Corn Fiber

Cheryl McColgan Did you have the GI or did you have the blood sugar? For diabetes and keto it's important to do some testing. Some alternatives to sugar spike insulin just as much or more as real sugar.

Courtney Lillich No, it takes… Some of this stuff… I won't name the company, but it tasted so good this chocolate, but then I noticed it would just spike my blood sugars up like no other. And I kept thinking, “What is it that's in this stuff?” And so then… ‘Cause I did my research more, and I found out it was the soluble corn fibre that it was in it, and I had no idea that it affected me like that, so bad. And come to find out, I guess 5 percent of people, it spikes up their blood sugar.

Cheryl McColgan And you happened to be one.

Courtney Lillich Whether you are a diabetic or not, it just spikes it up, it's just a really… If it doesn't spike it then great but… Man, everytime I see soluble corn fibre in the ingredients of sweets and stuff, I get so bummed. Especially, if it tastes good.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. And I can't figure out if it's more prevalent because it's a texture thing particularly with chocolate like you mentioned and I think it's in a lot of ice creams as well, or if it's more about adding that fiber to the product so that they can then lower the net carbs, which is probably what it is but…

Courtney Lillich Yeah, that soluble corn fibre. Man. It was just such an eye opening… I was like, “Oh no, this is my favorite chocolate.” Now, I have to be really… I still eat some of the chocolate but I have to be really careful.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. So a good reminder to people, even if you are gonna try particularly a packaged keto treat that there are some extra ingredients and everyone's a little bit different, everyone's a little bit bio-individual, so if you really wanna know if it spikes your blood sugar, which depending on what your goals are, and depending on if you're diabetic at all or not, that may or may not be that much of an issue for some people, but obviously for you it is because it affects how much insulin you're gonna need to use and how you feel and all of those things. It just depends on people's goals, I think whether they need to know if that spikes their blood sugar a lot.

Courtney Lillich Yeah, sure. It gives me.

Getting Started with Keto

Cheryl McColgan [chuckle] Yeah. Any final, other last thoughts on keto, anything that we haven't talked about or just that you would wanna add that might give some value to people that are trying to figure out how to make this lifestyle sustainable? 

Courtney Lillich Well, I think you'd have to go all in. If you're gonna do it, you have to do your research, educate yourself on the good foods, the bad foods. Ask people that know about it, people like you, and you have all the good tips and make sure you account for what you're eating for. Maybe talk to someone about the amounts you should be eating and really, really put your effort into it to see how it is in the beginning. And if you put 100% into it and you don't end up liking it, that's fine. It's just not for you, but who knows, you could really like it. It could benefit you like it did with me. I had friends that they see the difference in me and what I do, and they're not diabetic at all, but they're in my boxing class or boot camps or whatever, and so they wanna try the keto. Or just other people wanna try it, and they are like, “Oh, let me try it, I'll try it,” and then they only do it for a week, and they're like, “I couldn't do it.” And I was like, “Well, did you see any benefit?” “Well, yeah, but then I wanna eat the bread.”

[chuckle]

Courtney Lillich And so they… So then they eat it, and then they're eating the carbs and the fat, but I'm like, “No, you can't do that.”

Courtney Lillich I would… My advice would be put yourself 100% into it if you do wanna try it and educate yourself first. Don't just wing it.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, totally agree. It makes it easier when you at least have some background, and one of the other interviews that I had, we were talking about how it makes it a little easier when you figure out your ‘Why' for doing this because it is a big lifestyle change, and so obviously, now that you know that it can help manage your blood sugars. I'd imagine that's a pretty big ‘Why' for you. Any other things that you've noticed it affects that you would say why? 

Courtney Lillich Well, my focus is a lot on the body building and the workouts, and I just didn't wanna keep gaining weight, I wanted to lose a little bit of weight first, for body building stuff not because I thought I was fat or anything. That was the other reason that I went on it so that was good. Do I miss my cinnamon toast crunch and stuff? Yes, of course I do, but there'll be another time when I can have that, that's always gonna be around. Yeah.

Cheryl McColgan Actually, just on that note, one time somebody sent me this thing called Catalina Crunch that I think was pretty similar to cinnamon toast. [laughter]

Courtney Lillich Yep, I eat that. Yeah, and I even had it.

Cheryl McColgan Okay. And that one doesn't mess with your sugars? 

Courtney Lillich No.

Cheryl McColgan Good. Awesome. That shows you how everybody is a little bit different though, 'cause I'm not even diabetic, and I had some, and for whatever reason for me, it messed with mine. I got a pretty big…

Courtney Lillich Oh, it did.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, I got a pretty big increase, so.

Courtney Lillich Okay. I don't remember if there's soluble corn fibre in there, but yeah, I just found that sprouts a month or two ago, one of them was cinnamon toast or something, I was like, “Alright. Let me try it.” I looked at the ingredients, it wasn't too horrible. And then I was like, “Wow! This isn't bad.”

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, no that's… And that is the thing, there's a catch-22 with all the products, because as you mentioned, they're not all good just because they say keto-friendly. But I do think the beauty of it is if there's something particular, like you just mentioned that you really miss like that, that if you can find a substitute, even if it's not perfect, even if it's a little dirty or whatever, it still helps people transition or helps in that occasional craving that they're like, “Oh, I just really would love to have that again,” but they know it's not really in line with their goals. So they could pick something that's a little substitute instead.

Courtney Lillich One of the hard things in the beginning when I was doing it was, you go out with people and try… You wanna eat with people too, and it was hard 'cause lot of people that have done keto before they have, I don't know, a bad… I don't know what the word is, they just, “Oh, you're doing keto?” And I'm like, “Yes, yes, I am.”

[laughter]

Courtney Lillich So I always try to look ahead of time wherever we would go out to eat and look at the menu, and it's not that hard to order stuff that doesn't have that much carbs in it. You just have to think about it ahead of time too. That's part of being social.

Don't Overcomplicate Keto

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, that's another great tip is look at the menu ahead of time that way the decisions already made, you don't have the temptations, you know that it's gonna work for you and I guess move on with…

Courtney Lillich But keto is a lot more popular in these past few years, right? 

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. For sure.

Courtney Lillich And even restaurants and stuff they have keto options too.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah. Actually, I was shocked. Last January of 2020, right before the whole COVID business went down, I was in Banff snowboarding and we went somewhere for breakfast, and they had two or three fully keto section that said, “Keto meal,” and I was just like, “Leave it to Canada,” right? They always do [laughter] it right up there, but I was thinking that was so amazing to just see keto on a menu without any modifications, didn't have to order, and it came it was like bacon and avocado, maybe a couple of berries. I don't know, it was an amazing breakfast, eggs, of course and it's like, “How hard is that? It's not hard at all.”

Courtney Lillich Well, how hard is it just to order an omelette without hash browns. [chuckle]

Cheryl McColgan Right, or without a toast.

Courtney Lillich It's not that hard.

Cheryl McColgan Yeah, it's totally not that hard. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to have finally gotten to talk to you in person instead of just on Instagram, and let me know if you have any final little thought here that you wanna share with people, but other than that, I think we've had a great little chat.

Courtney Lillich Yeah. If anybody has any questions as far as the working out and diabetes and keto…

Cheryl McColgan Yes, and obviously where can they find you, all of the social media, all of the websites, all of that stuff? 

Courtney Lillich Yeah. I'm not a doctor or anything, but I can tell you my experiences. Just on Instagram, it's @Cornut34.

Cheryl McColgan Okay. And that'll be obviously in the show notes as well, and so that's the best way for people to contact you if they have questions? 

Courtney Lillich Yup.

Cheryl McColgan Okay. Awesome, well, thank you so much. Again, I really appreciate you joining us.

Courtney Lillich Yeah, thank you.